[Syrupmakers] Ethanol from sorghum/sugar cane

[Richard Harrison]

Jack,
      Keep up the good chemistry. I think that therein lies a better solution.                   
                                         Richard

sjward <sjward at swbell.net> wrote:
          Richard,
  I don't disagree with the commercial production of ethanol as a fuel. The problems that I laid out are not beyond solution. Unlike Brazil, currently in the USA, there is little infrastructure to support the production of ethanol from sugarcane. That can and hopefully will change. The problems though, lie not only in the lack of efficient production facilities, but in the actual use of the ethanol as a fuel. The USA, like Brazil has had to,  will have to contend with converting engines to run on the less "energetic" alcohol. The inescapable fact is that the short chain alcohols don't pack the punch of the longer chain petroleum "anes".  As I said, there is much current research into the efficient, cheap production of more energetic fuels based on an alcohol feed stock. Unlike the production of bio-diesel in "back yard" package plants, the local commercial production of ethanol wont be economically feasible, not to mention the government red tape and that the "revenooers"
 may show up to bust up your operation. As a chemist, my money is on the conversion of biomass to produce fuels that will rival petroleum with greatly reduced pollutants and a "O" carbon balance
  Jack
  ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Richard Harrison 
  To: syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net 
  Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 8:28 AM
  Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Ethanol from sorghum/sugar cane
  

  Jack,
      I agree with a lot of what you stated, but let me add that Brazil has been highly successful in utilizing ethanol from the sugarcane industry there--which was already in place. They burn mostly alcohol--which is considerably cheaper there than gasoline--even though they produce oil and gasoline. Now they don't have to depend on crude oil for their gasoline. (They can export it). To me, that is a BIG plus--even if the cost of making ethanol was equal.
      The U.S. COULD implement some of the techniques that are use in Brazil by utilizing the facilities already existing in the sugar industry here. Now, it wouldn't solve the U.S.'s demand for gasoline--because we use so MUCH more gasoline than Brazil does. But it COULD help aleve our dependence on foreign oil some.
       To grow sugarcane and make ethanol in the U.S. even on a large scale might be econom ically unfeasible(due to labor cost as much as anything else), but it seems like we COULD better utilize the possibilities that already exist from our current sugar industry in LA and FL.
                                             Richard

elliot weaver <jellybean_red at yahoo.com> wrote:
  Well said, Mr. Ward

Dick Weaver
Booneville, Al.
--- sjward wrote:

> Good morning all,
> First of all let me say that I am an
> environmentalist, but foremost a realist and I am as
> concerned as the next guy about the cost of fuel and
> global warming. The inquiry into the possibility of
> manufacturing ethanol from sorghum/sugar cane is in
> the second or third asking and as time goes on there
> will most likely be many more. The rational for the
> question is based on the assumption that
> sorghum/sugar cane = syrup, that in turn = sugars,
> that in turn can = ethanol. The equation seems
> simple but the interim steps require the direct
> input of energy, i.e. the growing, the harvesting,
> the processing to extract the juice, the reduction
> to syrup, fermentation, and distillation to produce
> ethanol. Even If the step leading to syrup was
> omitted and the juice was processed ( fermented or
> other wise converted ) to ethanol, the process
> would require the input of approximately five times
> the energy, as would be derived from the produced
> ethanol. Basically the process is not economically
> viable... currently.
> There are several universities and commercial
> operations researching the possibility of directly
> converting biomass into alcohols. With that said, if
> there would be a method of direct conversion, the
> problem would not be completely solved Ethanol,
> methanol, butanol and the short chain alcohols are
> clean burning fuels but the down side is that they
> do not have the inherent chemical energy to be
> efficient in and of themselves as a fuel for our
> today's road and industrial needs. to make it simple
> a car that gets 25 miles per gallon on gasoline
> would get only about 18 miles on ethanol.... there
> goes your trunk space Charley. Never fear the
> chemists of the world are still looking for the
> philosophers stone that would yield direct
> conversion and long chain energy packed alcohol
> molecules. In the mean time, lets keep making
> sorghum and cane syrup for the tradition, good
> eating , and maybe a little energy deficient
> distillation for our own consumption.
> Jack Ward
> Bay Farm 
> Palacios TX
> > _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
>
http://lists.syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers
> 



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